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 Codex: Iron Dragons (Renegade Space Marines)

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Grand Master Tjorvi
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PostSubject: Codex: Iron Dragons (Renegade Space Marines)   Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:53 pm

First, I'd like to just say "Hi all!" came across this little forum from a gent named Son of Sanguinius from the Warseer board. Asked a few questions and here I am.

Anywho, best I get on with the show, eh?

The idea behind this Chapter has been around for a little over four years, however because of a few bumps in life I have only been able to actively work on it for a little over two-and-a-half years. Much like nursing a child, except you don't get in trouble from the authorities if you ignore this one Shocked



Anyway, I've always been a fan of "shoot-y armies," but I never quite liked how the Tau played out, and you always need vast reserves of armor and soldiers for the Imperial Guard to work effectively (IMHO), but the Space Marines always held a special place in my heart. Mainly because they could just walk through all your gunfire and blow the back of your skull out with a trusty bolt pistol like it was nothing. Plus their last stands were always pretty badass, too. With this I resolved to make my own Chapter. Started out pretty bad, I won't lie; 10,000 marines strong, and formed from companies from over four different Chapters who thought the Imperium of Man fell to the Ruinous Powers, and took it upon themselves to liberate the Imperium. Boy, it took a while for the flaming to cool down on that one!

Over time, though I managed to mature in my ideas and viewpoint on the Chapter, and overall everything improved (even the flaming slowed down considerably), and then finally today came by, and I have a nearly complete fandex, but I just need some help to really make this sucker work. One of the issues I appear to be having though is my insufferable and insatiable need for detail. The amount of detail you find in your typical run-of-the-mill vanilla codex today just doesn't cut it for me. Seriously, doesnt it seem like todays codex's have enough information? I want MOAR!!

And thus.. Codex: Iron Dragons was born.



These two articles are the main ones for now, the first being the obvious Holy Grail;

Codex: Iron Dragons V2.2.1

Farlax Sector War

I just need to rewrite both the Pre- and Post-Heresy IA's for the Chapter
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Herald of the Lost
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Iron Dragons (Renegade Space Marines)   Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:45 pm

Okay, Tjorvi, a few initial reactions.

- First, holy crap that artwork is amazing. Is that yours or did you have that commissioned?

- I do think your work should be updated to the format of current codices, if in fact your codex is meant to be balanced with others.

- I very much like the thematic elements of your work. I have some very minor issues with some of the background you've done, but overall it sounds really fun.

- I think your codex needs at least one or two Mechanicus Headquarters choices. To keep the thematic element focused on Space Marines, you could make a Councilor mandatory or make the Mechanicus HQ not occupy an FOC slot.

- I don't see there being much to encourage a shooty army or discourage an assault. The current Marine codex pretty much demands a build with a strong assault core and plenty of melta support, and I don't see how your codex can compete against that build unless it goes the same route.

I will read more and get more specific, hopefully later today.
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Dwane Diblie
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Iron Dragons (Renegade Space Marines)   Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:26 pm

I am inspired and I have just read the first entry Very Happy

First thing that jumps out at me is that you are including, or I am reading it that way, your characters in their retinues. This is quite powerful in that they can nolonger be targeted individualy untill the unit is dead. For about a week I think there is only one army left that dose this and it has been removed from all other armies in the game. IG dosnt could as the Commander is never independent. So if that was intentional then ignore me but if not them a bit of rewording would help.

Next is Bionics. I always found them cumbersome. Just like I do not like how the We'll be Back rule works for Necrons. They do not exist in any codex anymore, even Yarrick has had it replaced with Iron Will though it works the same. I would be more interested in seeing Bionics give enhancements to statlines or give a USR. I do like the theame of it and therefor am not requesting they be removed at all.

Nice combination of guard in there.

I like the Psyker Terminator unit as opposed to a Librarian.

Reguarding the Apothecry and Techmarine. I think combining the 2 in to a single modle would work realy well for theam. If they are so infused with bionics they you would think the medics would know technics also. Idea need work. Very Happy

And yes this is very out of date reguarding referances to codexes and layout. we can work on that realy easely.

I havent read the fluff bit yet but I am assuming they have distanced them selves from the Emperor but not from the Machine Cult? Being that the Machine Cult is what makes them still Good Marines? Do they still see Chaos as the bigest threat to mankind or Mankind itself?
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Grand Master Tjorvi
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Iron Dragons (Renegade Space Marines)   Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:30 pm

Herald of the Lost wrote:
Okay, Tjorvi, a few initial reactions.

- First, holy crap that artwork is amazing. Is that yours or did you have that commissioned?

Yes, I did have it commissioned, by a rather nice spanish fellow by the name NachoMon on Deviant Art, along with a few other images (2 dreadnoughts and a Heavy Bolter marine)

Quote :
- I do think your work should be updated to the format of current codices, if in fact your codex is meant to be balanced with others.

well, what's the point in doing a codex if it isn't balanced when placed next to the other recent codex's (har har har Rolling Eyes ) I would very much like this codex to be on par with other codex's for 5th edition. Basically I don't want to have people go "wait a minute, half the units in that 'dex can already destroy my army on their own, and you have five of those units!" (unless it's Apocalypse, then your on your own Wink)

Quote :
- I very much like the thematic elements of your work. I have some very minor issues with some of the background you've done, but overall it sounds really fun.

bring it on, I love discussing the chapters fluff, what issue(s) come to mind?

Quote :
- I think your codex needs at least one or two Mechanicus Headquarters choices. To keep the thematic element focused on Space Marines, you could make a Councilor mandatory or make the Mechanicus HQ not occupy an FOC slot.

the idea with the Councilors is that they are the chapters ruling body, replacing the position of Chapter Master. Each group (Captains, Chaplains, Apothecaries, and Techmarines) each hold 25% voting power, with one representative from each group making up the highest (like the difference between Master and Grand Master). However, the idea that the Mechanicus unit would essentially be "free" from the FOC, that wouldn't be a stretch to what GW did with their previous marine codex (I think it was the Scions of Mars trait?)

Quote :
- I don't see there being much to encourage a shooty army or discourage an assault. The current Marine codex pretty much demands a build with a strong assault core and plenty of melta support, and I don't see how your codex can compete against that build unless it goes the same route.

Not necessarily true. Look at an all tau army list, or all kroot. You can have the best army list in the game, and still lose every time. It boils down to the player controlling the units as to whether that army wins, or loses. This army does however, contain some assault units, such as the Space Marine Dragon Guard and the Mechanicus Praetorians just as examples. I suppose, however that some additional CC units might have a place in the codex..

Dwane Diblie wrote:
First thing that jumps out at me is that you are including, or I am reading it that way, your characters in their retinues. This is quite powerful in that they can nolonger be targeted individualy untill the unit is dead. For about a week I think there is only one army left that dose this and it has been removed from all other armies in the game. IG dosnt could as the Commander is never independent. So if that was intentional then ignore me but if not them a bit of rewording would help.

Basically I want to make sure that people understand that if you want this or that particular unit -yes they will do a lot of damage on the field if you take them- you will feel it as you have to pay a painful amount of points to get them, sort of like Terminators. Lots of points, but are they worth it once the dust has settled? Maybe. Maybe not.

Short and sweet of it is that yes, you take this or that character, you must take an Honor Guard unit, like how if you want an Armored Fist squad for the Guard, you need to take a Chimera for the unit as well. It just ties in with the Dragon Guards background.

Quote :
Next is Bionics. I always found them cumbersome. Just like I do not like how the We'll be Back rule works for Necrons. They do not exist in any codex anymore, even Yarrick has had it replaced with Iron Will though it works the same. I would be more interested in seeing Bionics give enhancements to statlines or give a USR. I do like the theame of it and therefor am not requesting they be removed at all.

I don't have a clue what a "USR" is, unless you mean United States Revolution? *shrugs* worth a try..

I suppose.. if the points value for bionics were increased, they could do both; increase the WS or BS by +1 max, and give them the 6+ invulnerable save. If the bionics were increased from (I think) +2pts to say +5pts as an example, I wonder if that would be overpowered (as I suspect it might be) or whether that might be a decent way to go about it?

Quote :
Reguarding the Apothecry and Techmarine. I think combining the 2 in to a single modle would work realy well for theam. If they are so infused with bionics they you would think the medics would know technics also. Idea need work. Very Happy

Now this is interesting. The Iron Hands have the Iron Father, where he incorporates both the Chaplain and Techmarine role within the chapter. If the Iron Dragons chapter is to heavily incorporate bionic replacement parts for limbs and such into the chapter, then yes I agree the Apothecaries of the Chapter would end up spending more time interacting with marines that have bionics of some sort, and who knows, maybe replacing a particular bionic part might help save the marines life, but what if the apothecary doesnt know how to fix it?

Quote :
And yes this is very out of date reguarding referances to codexes and layout. we can work on that realy easely.

was merely trying to explain how the specific rule works without violating GW IP

Quote :
I havent read the fluff bit yet but I am assuming they have distanced them selves from the Emperor but not from the Machine Cult? Being that the Machine Cult is what makes them still Good Marines? Do they still see Chaos as the bigest threat to mankind or Mankind itself?

*ahem* they are in fact no longer on amicable terms with the Imperium of Man. They do still see Chaos for the threat that it poses, so they will still fight Chaos, but they will also fight the Imperium, and virtually any Xeno race they come across (not every race, because since they no longer refuel or rearm from Imperium zones, they don't want to be fighting everyone they come across, to ensure their resources "go that extra mile")
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