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 The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons

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Dwane Diblie
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PostSubject: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:52 am

I have created a new catagory for you and have started putting the entrys togeather. I have made a couple of changes to base wargeas as I was finding that it was hard to word the repacements properly. I have also left out a couple of things that nolonger exicst in the game. I have stoped at the first 2 units form the HQ section so you can go over it and give me your thoughts on the adustments and wording. If you do not like what I have done then just let me know and we will work on fixing it.
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Grand Master Tjorvi
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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:07 pm

alright fair enough, and thanks for the help! Very Happy I'll do this in point form;

Councilor-Captain;
* Should not get an option to use a bolter. While they would know how to properly use one, it doesn't.. quite fit with their established feel (if that makes sense?)
* You've got his weaponry starting off with a bolt pistol and chainsword, when it should be starting with a storm bolter and power sword
* The Dragon Guard are an Honor Guard squad, maybe that should be mentioned in the profile
* I would suggest removing the auspex from his profile, seems more of a.. trooper role than a commander, just my opinion
* Aside from some simple spelling errors, I think that looks like everything for the Captain

Councilor-Chaplain
* Bolter (see above)
* A chaplain may also opt to lead with an Dragon Guard Honor Guard squad, as can the techmarine and apothecary councilors
* auspex (see above)
* I recommend the chaplain start off with his plasma pistol as opposed to the bolt pistol, but again, just me
* after that it runs into the little spelling errors, and that's everything I think

off to a great start, I love how these profiles look Very Happy
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Dwane Diblie
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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:44 pm

The reason for the base weapon changes was for the costing of weapon upgrades. More so with the Storm Bolter and Power Weapon. Trying to replace a Power Weapon with a weapon worth less than would be hard to write.

All the options are that of all the options you listed at the bottom of the army list. I can add and remove what ever you wanted. Speakinng of, Lightning Claws?

Wargear I removed and reasons why.

Power Halberd. I couldn't find rules for it so I assumed that it is exactly like a powr weapon. As this is a cosmetic change then it is not needed to be listed. Just showen on the example modles. Though I would love for a rule to be made for this weapon as I feel it deserves to be better than a simple power weapon. I would consider adding strength or Rending USR to the user.

Hellgun, Lasgun, Autogun. Not appropreate for Marine character.

Master Crafted Weapons. Dont exist any more for simplisity reasons.
Terminator Honors. Dose not exist any more and therefor would not make sence. I sugest that if you still want to add an attack this way then you rename it.

Reguarding Dragon Guard. An explanation will not be needed as they will be put up with the rest of the HQ units. That is unless you actualy want to call them Dragon Guard Honor Guard.
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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:14 pm

Dwane Diblie wrote:
The reason for the base weapon changes was for the costing of weapon upgrades. More so with the Storm Bolter and Power Weapon. Trying to replace a Power Weapon with a weapon worth less than would be hard to write.

well, there's always removing the chainsword entry entirely and just starting off with the power sword. There are several units in 40k 5th edition that do that already and get by just fine. Just a thought.

Quote :
All the options are that of all the options you listed at the bottom of the army list. I can add and remove what ever you wanted. Speakinng of, Lightning Claws?

*shrugs* bound to miss a thing or two when you're writing this with only two people. I don't have a problem with the inclusion of lightning claws. Where I do, however is where they would be included ie whether it would be an HQ selection

Quote :
Wargear I removed and reasons why.

Power Halberd. I couldn't find rules for it so I assumed that it is exactly like a powr weapon. As this is a cosmetic change then it is not needed to be listed. Just showen on the example modles. Though I would love for a rule to be made for this weapon as I feel it deserves to be better than a simple power weapon. I would consider adding strength or Rending USR to the user.

What background information I have for that particular piece goes like this; they were prototypes for a new type of power weapon, one that was built with a rare mineral found at the edge of the Imperium in the Halo Stars. The blades were built with their tips being coated in a fine super sharp diamond, that may or may not help to channel the users psychic powers (havent decided yet). These weapons were meant to enable the user to penetrate all but the thickest armor with ease, more so than your typical power weapons of today. That is, until the Iron Dragons stole the data on the weapons, as well as the weapons themselves from an Adeptus Mechanicus weapons development facility right before they destroyed both it, and the surrounding area from orbit

Quote :
Hellgun, Lasgun, Autogun. Not appropreate for Marine character.

the hellgun, lasgun, and autogun are not meant for space marine characters, but the skitarii in either the troops or elite choices (dont have it open right now)

Quote :
Master Crafted Weapons. Dont exist any more for simplisity reasons.

well, I have been away from the game for a few years now, if GW got rid of master crafted weapons, it's a shame..

Quote :
Terminator Honors. Dose not exist any more and therefor would not make sence. I sugest that if you still want to add an attack this way then you rename it.

Quote :
Reguarding Dragon Guard. An explanation will not be needed as they will be put up with the rest of the HQ units. That is unless you actualy want to call them Dragon Guard Honor Guard.

The closest unit to a Dragon Guard that is in a codex right now is the Honor Guard squad from Codex: Space Marines (5th edition), so the squad is this chapter's equivalent to an Honor Guard unit. Their reason for being is to protect the chapter leaders on and off the field, they're their bodyguards
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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:15 pm

Ok I have looked around for a couple of examples of power weapon wielding characters and found a solution. I have updated both entrys. Will work on the Apothecry, Techmarine and Dragon guard later today.
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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:43 am

one of the first things I noticed was the addition of "Dragon Honors," Im sure I can come up with something interesting for that, perhaps something along the lines of dragons teeth turned into a form of purity seal or a badge of honor of sorts (catachan, for example, use teeth to mark the move to becoming a veteran, or how many successful campaigns they have participated in)

I would like to stress the fact though that these councilors -and indeed especially the Grand Councilors- are characters within the Chapter, and as such would need weaponry to mark them out above their Brothers. As such, a bolter, granted while your symbolic marine weapon, might not be the best choice for a "special character" of sorts. The Apothecary and Techmarine both have bolters, and with the inherent duties of the Apothecary and Techmarines, their arms would normally need to be free to do whatever their position requires, from repairing vehicles or defenses, to ensuring the survival of the Chapter's gene-seed, I just can't see them performing their duties while carrying a bolter in both hands (and contrary to popular belief, personally I can't see a marine firing a bolter one-handed and repairing a marine or vehicle at the same time. Even Space Marines have limits)

The Techmarine looks fine other than that, maybe removing the storm shield option for the above reasons (unless it were a small helmet-sized shield attached to his hand?), and the plasma/melta gun options. Basically any two-handed weapons might prove a little cumbersome to these specialized Space Marines, they might get in the way of their duties while on the field

I don't mean to sound impatient (just very excited Twisted Evil ), but when will your take on the other profiles be posted, or do you prefer to finish with one section at-a-time? Also, there should probably be another category added to this section, for Special Characters (Cerberus, Savaal, Tjorvi, etc.)
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Dwane Diblie
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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:28 am

Of corse you are exciter. Your baby is coming to life. But that being said i do have more to do. I also find I can not sit and doo the same thing over and over again so need to diferentiate what I do. I basicaly started at the top of your list and started working my way down. I think I will jusp to troops after I have done the HQ. And yes if you want the Special Character in a diferent section then I can do that. I just think it is pointless considering that in all codicies they are included in their appropriate sections.

So yes more to come and very soon. I will try to do a bit each day for you. Very Happy
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Grand Master Tjorvi
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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:48 pm

I don't want to come off as expecting other people to do all the work with this codex, however I don't know what to modify, include, or remove if there's no posts regarding this or that profile
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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:34 pm

I hate to bump/necromance here, but does this mean any and all help for this particular codex is over?
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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:07 pm

Not at all, Tjorvi. I'm just not sure we can help you in the time frame. I'd be glad to help and I actually have a few ideas, but I need some time to finish something first. Smile

I like your sig, by the way.
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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:09 pm

the timeframe that I quoted you in the PM is not for the codex to be 100% finished, just.. 95% playable, if possible. I'd settle with 75% playable, really. Players just have to be able to use the codex in next years campaign without it stalling the game for 30-60 additional minutes because of issues here and there caused by the codex (rules clarity, stats, etc.)
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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:33 pm

Okay, let me try and do something between tonight and tomorrow (I'm on the west coast of the US).

E-mail me what you have and I'll give you my codex-interpretation of the Iron Dragons. I warn you, though, I can be a little...unorthodox. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:53 pm

You can find a link posted in the other thread in this section with Codex: Iron Dragon V2.2.1 in it. As memory serves me that is the latest version of the codex, however I am milling about with some notes or ideas that might or might not be added in later versions, such as a tank commander or Adeptus Mechanicus special character
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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:18 pm

Gotcha! Send me whatever you like.
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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:36 pm

Yeah I am sorry for the lack of continuation on this project. I have been a little buisy an got kind of distracted. I will be doing quite a bit on it to day though. I will just be translating what I can out of the current codex in to the unit entries. Any changes that are made will have to be added and updated later.
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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:49 pm

Tjorvi, can you give me an idea of what you expect this codex to feel like? Are we talking slight deviation from the norm in like Dark Angels or full on non-Codex like Space Wolves and Black Templars? I know your chapter is a renegade one, but there seems to be a very strict organizational structure in place.

Are we talking Dark Angels with Mechanicum allies or full on dissident Iron Hands?
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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:03 pm

To be honest, I wouldn't know how an Iron Hands codex might feel, however I do know how both Dark Angel and Black Templar codexes feel. I'd say a mix between the DA and BT codexes, with Mechanicum allies. Once you lay the chapter all out, they aren't codex standard in their organization, number of marines, or indeed units, so I suppose Space Wolves in that regard. I'd like it to have some chapter-specific wargear to bring to the table, give them a sense of who they are,, like the Black Templars, but also to have some heavy fluff added to the codex, to give them a sense of what they've done, and whats happened to them along thir journey, like the Dark Angels

Besides, the "strict organisation" is there to ensure order and balance. Bare in mind that I just woke up and replied to this, so i may have missed mentioning either something or some things, but if that's the case I'll simply make note of them later
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PostSubject: Re: The Start of Codex: Iron Dragons   Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:27 am

just a quick note for a few additions

DREADNOUGHTS
- all dreadnoughts (save character dreadnoughts) will have Forge Worlds new Ironclad Hurricane Bolter weapon system added into the list of options to arm the dreadnought with
- dreadnought weapon addition of the inferno cannon and plasma cannon
- Chaplain Savaal is to be represented by the Forge World "Chaplain Dreadnought" model
- the Tjorvi special character gains the ruling that should he be selected for a game, dreadnoughts of all types may then be taken as heavy support AND elites (so 3 + 3, not just 3 total)

TANKS
- all tread-incorporated vehicles (Predator, Land Raider, Rhino..) automatically have reinforced armor, to represent their close ties with their ad mech allies, and their ability to easily benefit from forge world refits
- the Chapter's Land Raiders may end up being represented by Mk IIB Land Raiders, shown from the days of the Horus Heresy. Perhaps these were the only LRs to survive the chapters retreat after the Farlax Sector War

MARINE ARMOR & ARMORY
- while not having any effect on game play, I was thinking of having the armor worn by the chapter being represented by older variants, such as the Mk II Crusader Armor, Mk III Iron Armor, MK IV Maximus Armor, and Mk V Heresy Armor, while using Phobos-pattern and Umbra Ferrox-pattern bolters (the Ferrox-pattern being the one used in the Iron Dragons image supplied on this board)

and in a separate category, I am still struggling with a possible new office title for a combined Apothecary and Techmarine (like the Iron Hands and their Iron Fathers {Techmarine and Chaplain}), however with this proposition, it has created a potential problem, in that should the two offices be combined, the Tjorvi special character may need some re-thinking, as he is a space marine techmarine in a dreadnought chassis

I am also still working on the profiles of both a Chapter Tank Commander/Ace and an Adeptus Mechanicus special character. If you are having troubles with any of the above new items (armor, bolter variants, and dreadnought weapons and type), you can find them all with images on the Forge World website
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