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 Iron Dragons Everywhere

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Herald of the Lost
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PostSubject: Iron Dragons Everywhere   Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:21 am

So, Tjorvi, and the rest of you that are interested, I didn't want you guys to think that I had abandoned my work on this.

I have a sample of what I'm working on at the moment, which can be found here.


The style is making me iron out quite a few wrinkles, but please let me know if you don't like where I'm going with this. Cheers.
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Grand Master Tjorvi
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PostSubject: Re: Iron Dragons Everywhere   Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:40 pm

what I have here isn't meant to be one of those "HEY WTF!?" posts, more of me raising my hand or pointing things out;


Armory (officers)
- Artificer armor should be marked as something like a relic, very limited, I'd say to no more than 3 characters per army (apocalypse games Might see more than 3, depending)
- office-specific items (eg: rosarius, servo arm, etc.) should have a "Chaplain/Apothecary/Techmarine-only" note beside them
- except for scouts, Power Armor is the basic armor, so I don't think it needs to be listed


Armory (squads)
- is the storm bolter really a two-handed weapon?


Armory (vehicles)
- this could just be me, but should a demolisher cannon really be an optional upgrade for any vehicle?
- the seismic hammer doesn't have a profile ".. that uses the following profile."
- siege shield, is that something of your own design? I havent played the game for a little while now, so I may be a little behind on the latest GW releases


Headquarters
- Captain
---- points cost from previous codex posting on this board modified
---- all weapons have been removed
- Chaplain
---- points cost from previous codex posting on this board modified
---- The High Councilor and Councilor profiles are the same points cost
- Apothecary
---- points cost from previous codex posting on this board modified
---- "Feel no Pain" rule removed
---- The High Councilor and Councilor profiles are the same points cost
- Techmarine
---- points cost from previous codex posting on this board modified
---- The High Councilor and Councilor profiles are the same points cost


Elites
- Dragon Guard (all variants)
---- the Dragon Guards' psychic abilities list has been removed (contained chapter-specific listings)
---- points cost reduced from 50 to 40pts for regular, and 20pts for veteran (shouldnt that be reversed?)
---- unit count altered from 5-8 to 3-10 for regular, or 5-10 for veteran (shouldnt that be reversed?)
---- the Dragon Guard psychic abilities act like a Librarians, so they should have a list of choices to choose from, not just two
---- The unit acts like a close quarters psychic bodyguard unit, be they regular or veteran, and so should not have access to weapons with ranges exceeding 24"
---- the chapter doesn't have access to Razorbacks in general, as those became available after the chapter left the Imperium and went on the run
---- I think I mentioned this in a previous post, cant remember right now for the life of me, but this unit should be a "must-take" if you choose to take a Captain to lead the army
---- you have the regular Dragon Guard costing the same amount as those in Terminator armor, and Veteran Dragon Guard have Leadership 9 while regular Dragon Guard have Leadership 10 (reversed?)
- Dreadnoughts
---- forgot (?) to mention the Magna-Grapple (shoots a spiked chain at an armored target and drags it towards the dreadnought, ranged 12")
---- points cost down 5 points, and no visible explanation/reason why
- Praetorians
---- I do like the limitation where it states you need to take a Tech Priest to take Ad Mech specific units like this

Troops
- Iron Dragon Tactical Squad
---- lost their bionics (and in turn invulnerable save)
---- points cost lowered from 18 to 15
---- can't use razorbacks
---- no profile given for the Umbra Ferrox-pettern bolters (they cost +20ts for the whole squad, stay the same range, but increase shots by +1 per bolte, according to range; 12"=3 shots, 24"=2 shots, but dont gain this ability if they move and shoot)
- Skitarii
---- you have them listed as "Iron Dragons" in the unit composition portion (.. 5-10 Iron Dragons.. 15pts/model)
---- you have them listed as wearing power armor, and listed as Space Marines in the Unit Options, perhaps have them listed as wearing Carapace Armor instead?


Fast Attack
- Skyhunter Squad
---- ???
---- Obviously this is a new unit of your design, but what purpose does this unit have? is it supposed to be the Assault Squad for the Chapter?
- Drakesteed Squadron
---- ???
---- Obviously this is a new unit of your design, but what purpose does this unit have?


Heavy Support
- Destroyer Squad
---- ???
---- Is this unit supposed to be the Devastator squad with a new name?
- Predator
---- I noticed you removed the entire profile for the Predator Infernus. I'm not sure if this was intentional or purely by accident, but I am curious on why the tank isn't in there anymore?
---- you have this tank listed as a fast vehicle
- Vindicator
---- you have this tank listed as a fast vehicle
- Land Raider
---- kind of a big one here, but you have this tank listed at 150pts as opposed to 250pts, any particular reason for that?


Special Characters
- I merely noticed they weren't added in to this posting, and I was all "Sad," but I guess they'll appear later


Across the Chapter
- heavy and special weapons in this chapter are treated like they are with Chaos armies; if you don't take an assault weapon in your squad, you get to trade it in for a heavy weapon instead, at regular points cost (so instead of a special and heavy weapon, you could then take 2 heavy weapons, or two specials)
- none of the profiles appear to have an armor save value added to their profiles, I just found this odd, when they have every other stat
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PostSubject: Re: Iron Dragons Everywhere   Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:38 pm

Points all taken into consideration, Tjorvi. I'm still working on it to make it come out as you had original designed it (options-wise) but the pdf was more to ask your opinion on the style. Do you like the way the unit entries and armory look, for example?
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PostSubject: Re: Iron Dragons Everywhere   Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:42 pm

ah alright, I wasn't aware that it was merely to show off your proposed style of layout. With the armory though, wouldnt Games Workshop send some sort of.. complaint that their IP is being openly and entirely copy/pasted/posted on something that isn't done by them? just a concern I would prefer to avoid if and when possible. An easy solution to this however would be to just post stats that aren't copy/pastes from any GW publication, and profiles or weapons that do use GW stats, to just post "please refer to codex X on page Y for details.."
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PostSubject: Re: Iron Dragons Everywhere   Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:08 pm

I understand your concern. Ultimately it is your codex and not mine, so if you're uncomfortable with it I'd be glad to change it.

That said, there are a couple reasons why I'm not worried.

1) I'm not doing this for profit, and presumably neither are you.

2) Nothing in my document suggests that the stats or rules are the same as in the existing codices. You'd have to already own copies to know that.

3) I'm not advertising these rules to be anything but those from a fandex.
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PostSubject: Re: Iron Dragons Everywhere   Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:28 pm

Oh no I understand where Your coming from, however I spoke with GW Legal several times (pain in the ass, I don't recommend it!) and I was informed that should I not try to gain any profit from using their IP, or reproducing their IP in (basically) any way, shape, or form, However I have had them accept that if I am just planning to use the codex for a specific event or collection of events (campaign), and if I make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that the codex is in no way shape or form endorsed or supported by Games Workshop, that appears to be the only "thumbs up" scenario that they would approve in my situation. The guy I managed to speak with says it would be a great idea if I added in a big red stamp that says UNOFFICIAL on the front cover, that if anyone thinks it's a GW codex

With regard to the stats for things like weapons or profiles, unless it's a chapter-specific unit or vehicle, I don't want to take a chance on having either one or several stores preventing the usage of the codex because of GW profiles being used, and the worry that GW would come down on them (which is actually a concern for several stores on my end when I tried to have some play-testing done). Maybe adding in the page, codex, and edition on profiles that we can't add in the stats as an alternative?
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PostSubject: Re: Iron Dragons Everywhere   Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:04 am

been two weeks, I never know if this forum is dead or if someone's just waiting for me to post something, or..? :\
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