Stupid and Crazy Toughness/Armour Idea

Had an interesting but alittle complicated idea the other day reguarding armour and toughness and a way to combine it in to one roll.

Roll to hit.

Then Take the strength of the weapon awat from the thoughness of the target. The result is the negative penalty to the armour save.

Firing a bolter at an Guardsman

S4 v T3 = -1 Save. Guardsman saves on a 6+

Firing a Starcannon at a Marine

S6 v T4 = -2 Save. Marine saves on a 5+

Now this dons not take in to account the punching power of some weapons or lack of for others but we can fix that later.

Thoughts?

Hi Dwane Dibblie.
As the armour is far more resiliant than the creature behind it in 40k type games.(Usualy.)
The the chance of a creature suriving a hit that beat the armour is not that great.(When compared to games like WHFB,for example.Low velocity weapons like arrows and swords are less truamatic than highvelocity weapons like HVAP and Plasma!))

So if we let the toughness value modify the armour value , and deduct this value from the strenght of the weapon to get the armour save.

It does exactly the same as you sugest in your post , but arrives thier by a more straight forward way.

1)T vs S = modifier.
2)SV - modifier= modified save.

OR str- (Tm+ sv) = modified save required.

Using current 40k values....

T up to 3 no modifier.
T 4 to 5 + 1
T 6 to 7 +2
T 8+ , +3.

6+ save = AR 1
5+ save = AR 2
4+ save = AR3
3+ save = AR4
2+ save + AR 5

Power field modifier to save.
Refractor. +1,
Deflector.+2
Displacer.+3

Current vehicle AV + AR.

This way ALL units get an AR value from 1 to 14.

Current weapon strenghts +3 =New 'Damage Value'.

Eg Ork Boy (sv 6+ T 4) AR 2 is hit by a bolt gun (Str 4 + 3 ) Damage 7
6-2 = 5+ save.
(If save is failed the model is removed as a casualty.)

An SM (sv3 T4) AR 5 is hit by a bolt gun (Str 4 +3) Damage 7
7-5=2+ save

(Values in parenthasis for reference only.)

This way a models armour and toughness MODIFY the damage taken directly, to give proportional saves....

And as this is so simple it alows for a supression mechanic and detailed 'large model damage' to be resolved using less pages of rules than the current 40k rules use JUST for resolving damage.
(Monsters and vehicles are treated the same in my concept.)

I may not have explained it that well sorry...

TTFN

Hey Lanrak,

I found that a little hard to follow at first. But I Think I got it now. What I do not understand is what you are doing with the weapon causing the wound. It seems overly complicated to me. Also you have an ork saving better that it would in my version of the rule.

A Guardsman fires his Lasgun at an ork.

S3 v T4 = +1 Save. As the save can never be improved then the model only has a 6+ save against the shot.

And again I have just stumbled across another oversite. The lack of a to wound roll would mean that a Lasgun has a way greater chance of killing an ork than it currently dose.

Oh, Just had another interesting idea. 3 types of saves. Toughness, Armour and Invulnerable.

If a weapon is of a lower S than the targets toughness then it just needs a T test to shrug off the wounds. No mods.

10 Guardsmen Rapid Firing at a mob of Orks.

10 hits = 10 Toughness tests of 4 or less = ~3 dead orks.

10 Marines Rapid Firing at a mob of Orks

14 hits = 14 Armour Saves of 6+ = ~11 dead orks.

The more I think about it the more it is starting to feel too powerful to fit in with the current rules.

Anyway, Thoughts?

Hi Dwane Dibblie.
My explanation was a bit over complicated becuse it included the proposed method of converting 40ks 3 seperate damage resolution methods.

Here is may simple explanation.

Weapons are developed to cause damage.The higher the amount of damage the weapon does the higher its Damage Value.

Armour and other forms of battle field protection are developed to reduce or negate the damage inflicted by weapons.

If we define weapons by thier effective range , damage value, and effect on target.(With specialised weapons recieving bonus types of damage.)

If we define an elements PHYSICAL Resistance to damage as an Armour -Resistance to damage value (AR).

Then simply deduct the targets AR from the weapons DV to give the score to equal or roll over to save the element from being put out of action.


DV- AR = save roll required.

No tables or charts to look at.


Toughness armour and invunerable saves are ALL sumerised into an AR value.(As outlined above.)

ALL elements have exactly the same characterastics.ALL weapon damage is resolved in the same way.

If you want maximum gameplay with the minimum of fuss, throw GW 40k rule set out of the window and start again!

Thats what Andy Chambers, Jervis Johnson, Allessio Calvatore, and even Rick Priestly did.
NONE of them used 40k based rules when they were NOT forced to by GW corperate managment...



TTFN.