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 My ongoing Fandex project

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Herald of the Lost
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PostSubject: My ongoing Fandex project   Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:29 am

Requesting opinions. Smile

I'm working on fan-made codices, the fan of course being me. The most important thing for me in the long run is that these codices are balanced against each other, and hopefully through points costs, can actually be balanced against the existing books.

Important note: When say balance, I mean using point costs to have two or more effective armies on the table that make luck of the dice and skills as a general the win factors. My efforts to reflect fluff should be judged in the perspective of the fandices together, not grouped with the existing codices. What do I mean? I might give Dark Reapers BS 5. I might make a Demon Prince S6 T6 standard. While these might be considered heresies when compared only the current codices, such units will pay the literal and proverbial cost for such bonuses so that the footing essentially does not change. Ultimately, however, my lists are meant to work primarily between themselves. Balance across groups is a secondary, albeit important, concern.

My overall goal is to do everything in my insignificant power to make army lists that benefit from multiple competitive lists that can reflect a multitude of thematic armies and play-styles.

What I present to you now is the barest skeleton of the work. The simple FOC chart layouts that I will be using. I request your input and opinions on what units I should be leaving in, taking out, putting in, and moving. Odds are, by the way, that any unit that is missing or moved when compared to the army's existing codex is that way for a reason.


Space Marines
• HQ: Force Commander; Chaplain; Champion; Librarian; Techmarine; Apothecary; Command Squad
• Elites: Veteran Squad; Terminator Squad; Scout Squad; Forsaken Squad
• Troops: Tactical Squad
• Fast Attack: Assault Squad; Bike Squadron; Attack Bike Squadron; Land Speeder Squadron
• Heavy Support: Devastator Squad; Dreadnought; Predator; Vindicator; Whirlwind; Land Raider
• Dedicated Transports: Rhino; Razorback; Drop Pod; Land Raider

Imperial Guard
• HQ: Company Commander; Lord Commissar; Primaris Psyker; Company Command Squad
• Elites: Storm Trooper Squad; Veteran Guardsman Squad; Ogryn Squad; Ratling Squad; Psyker Battle Squad; Penal Legion Squad
• Troops: Infantry Platoon; Conscript Platoon
• Fast Attack: Scout Sentinel Squadron; Armored Sentinel Squadron; Rough Rider Platoon; Hellhound
• Heavy Support: Heavy Weapons Platoon; Leman Russ; Manticore; Basilisk; Medusa; Griffon; Colossus
• Dedicated Transports: Chimera

Chaos Space Marines
• HQ: Demon Prince; Warmaster; Exalted Champion; Dark Apostle; Sorcerer; Warsmith; Progenitor; Chosen Retinue
• Elites: Berserker Squad; Rubric Golem Squad; Desecrator Squad; Dissonance Squad; Possessed Squad
• Troops: Marauder Squad
• Fast Attack: Reaver Squad; Raptor Squad; Warhound Squadron; Night Talon Squadron
• Heavy Support: Havoc Squad; Obliterators; Dreadnought; Predator; Vindicator; Defiler; Land Raider
• Dedicated Transports: Rhino; Dreadclaw Assault Pod; Land Raider

Lost and the Damned
• HQ: Radical Inquisitor; Apostate Cardinal; Rogue Psyker; Traitor General
• Elites: Mutant Ogryn Pack; Chaos Spawn Pack; Traitor Veteran Guardsmen Squad; Demonhosts
• Troops: Mutant Horde; Cultist Horde; Traitor Guardsmen Squad
• Fast Attack: Mutant Cavalry; Enslaved Warbeasts; Traitor Sentinel Squadron; Traitor Hellhound
• Heavy Support: Giant Spawn; Traitor Heavy Weapons Teams; Traitor Leman Russ; Traitor Basilisk
• Dedicated Transports: Traitor Chimera

Demon Legions
• HQ: Bloodthirster; Lord of Change; Great Unclean One; Keeper of Secrets; Herald of Khorne; Herald of Tzeentch; Herald of Nurgle; Herald of Slaanesh
• Elites: Bloodcrusher Pack; Flamer Pack; Rotbeast Pack; Painfiend Pack
• Troops: Bloodletter Pack; Horror Pack; Plaguebearer Pack; Demonette Pack
• Fast Attack: Flesh Hound Pack; Skyscreamer Pack; Nurgling Swarm; Pleasureseeker Pack; Chaos Fury Pack
• Heavy Support: Prince of Chaos; Prince of Skulls; Prince of Sorcery; Prince of Pestilence; Prince of Excess; Soulgrinder

Orks
• HQ: Warboss; Big Mek; Mad Dok; Warp ‘Ead
• Elites: Mega Nobz Mob; Nobz Mob; Mekboyz Mob; Painboyz Mob; Weirdboyz Mob; Madboyz Mob; Burna Boyz Mob; Tankbusta Boyz Mob; Loota Boyz Mob
• Troops: Slugga Boyz Mob ; Shoota Boyz Mob; Gretchin Mob
• Fast Attack: Storm Boyz Mob; Biker Boyz Mob; Boar Boyz Mob; Deff Kopta Squadron; War Buggy Squadron
• Heavy Support: Killa Kanz Mob; Deff Dred; Big Gunz Battery; Battlewagon; Squiggoth
• Dedicated Transports: Trukk; Battlewagon

Craftworld Eldar
• HQ: Farseer; Autarch; Warseer; Spiritseer; Bonesinger
• Elites: Dire Avenger Squad; Howling Banshee Squad; Striking Scorpion Squad; Ranger Squad; Warlock Squad; Wraithknight Squad
• Troops: Guardian Defender Squad; Guardian Storm Squad
• Fast Attack: Swooping Hawk Squad; Warp Spider Squad; Shining Spear Squadron; Guardian Jetbike Squadron; Vyper Squadron; Falcon; Night Spinner; Fire Prism
• Heavy Support: Fire Dragon Squad; Dark Reaper Squad; War Walker Squadron; Wraithguard Squad; Wraithlord; Avatar of Khaine
• Dedicated Transports: Wave Serpent

Dark Eldar
• HQ: Archon; Succubus; Haemonculus; Court of the Archon
• Elites: Incubi Squad; Mandrake Squad; Hekatari Squad; Kabalite Trueborn Squad; Wrack Squad
• Troops: Kabalite Warrior Squad
• Fast Attack: Hellion Squad; Beastmaster Squad; Reaver Squadron; Ravager
• Heavy Support: Grotesque Squad; Scourge Squad; Talos Pain Engine; Cronos Pain Engine; Archangel of Pain
• Dedicated Transports: Raider

Tyranids
• HQ: Hive Tyrant; Genestealer Broodlord; Alpha Warrior Brood; Tyrant Guard Brood; Hive Guard Brood
• Elites: Prime Warrior Brood; Genestealer Brood; Lictor Brood; Venomthrope Brood; Pyrovore Brood
• Troops: Hormagaunt Brood; Termagaunt Brood; Ripper Swarm
• Fast Attack: Gargoyle Brood; Ravener Brood; Skyripper Swarm; Shrike Warrior Brood; Harpy
• Heavy Support: Biovore Brood; Zoanthrope Brood; Carnifex; Trygon; Tyrannofex; Tervigon
• Dedicated Transports: Mycetic Spore

Tau
• HQ: Crisis Commander; Stealth Commander; Ethereal; Master Shaper
• Elites: Crisis Strike Team; Stealth Insertion Team; Veteran Fire Warrior Team; Krootox Pack; Kroot Carnivore Squad
• Troops: Fire Warrior Team
• Fast Attack: Pathfinder Team; Piranha Squadron; Vespid Stingwing Team; Kroot Hound Pack; Knarloc Pack
• Heavy Support: Sniper Team; Broadside Support Team; Hammerhead Gunship; Sky Ray Gunship; Greater Knarloc
• Dedicated Transports: Devilfish


Let the flaying begin. Wink
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SeaSwift
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PostSubject: Re: My ongoing Fandex project   Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:58 pm

What the hell is a Wraithknight?

And I have my own Eldar Fandex nearing completion. It is more a 'patch' for the current one than a completely new 'dex, though.
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Herald of the Lost
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PostSubject: Re: My ongoing Fandex project   Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:00 pm

Ah, yes. There are a couple new units. Forgot about that.

Wraithknights are melee-focused Wraithguard.

Wraithguard with two-handed power weapons that re-roll failed to hit and to wound rolls instead of Wraithcannons.

I'm writing the word Wraith so much I feel like I'm working on the Space Wolves codex.
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: My ongoing Fandex project   Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:48 pm

Still disagree with Scouts as elites.
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SeaSwift
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PostSubject: Re: My ongoing Fandex project   Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:07 pm

yabba wrote:
Still disagree with Scouts as elites.

Same with Jetbikes, Dire Avengers and Rangers moving from Troops for the Eldar.
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Herald of the Lost
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PostSubject: Re: My ongoing Fandex project   Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:38 pm

EXPLAIN.

Please. Smile

I need reasons.
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: My ongoing Fandex project   Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:42 pm

Marine Scouts are not elite troops by statline - only SW Scouts come close. In addition the marine elite section is heavy enough, whereas the Troop section has only one section.

Keep the scouts in troops and allow the marine elite section more freedom.
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PostSubject: Re: My ongoing Fandex project   Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:31 am

Herald of the Lost wrote:
EXPLAIN.

Please. Smile

I need reasons.

Guardian Jetbikes would be competing with other fast harrass units in Fast Attack, and they haven't got the statline or special rules to do so - in fact, Shining Spears are just Guardian Jetbikes with better CC ability. In addition, this leaves a Saim-Hann fluffy list scrambling in the dust, with no fast units in Troops, unless you plan to have an SC which moves them, which I feel limits the combinations and forces Saim-Hann generals to take an SC they might not want for no reason.

Rangers, again, have neither the statlines nor special rules to compete for the already crowded other slots. They work well in Troops, allowing a fluffy Alaitoc army without need for an SC.

Dire Avengers are supposed to be the jack-of-all-trades Aspect, which fits perfectly in the Troops section. Perhaps they could be tweaked a bit, but a slot change is unnecessary. They also allow you to make a fluffy Biel-Tan list, including only Aspects and Autarchs etc.
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PostSubject: Re: My ongoing Fandex project   Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:53 pm

On the topic of Eldar Jetbikes: Perhaps they can be upgraded to Troops if you take an Autarch (or some other HQ choice), on a bike, rather than an SC. Similar to how a SM captain on a bike "unlocks" bikes as Troops. This would still be fluffy for Saim-Hann, as they are likely to be led by such a character.

As far as SM scouts and Rangers go, I agree they need to remain Troops, for the reasons others have already stated (stats, fluff, battlefield role).

With Dire Avengers, the issue I see is less with them and more with Guardians. DA seem much better than Guardians, so I'm not sure why one would take them. However, I don't play Eldar anymore (used to play Iyanden), so I may not be the best judge on this. That said, I think Guardians need a "role" tweak so they are different than DA.
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Herald of the Lost
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PostSubject: Re: My ongoing Fandex project   Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:57 pm

What I don't get is why Scouts and Rangers don't follow the same logic as Jetbikes.

Troops is meant for army mainstay, right? In the case of Scouts, only in very rare circumstance do Marine armies base their force around scouts. In the case of Rangers, I know Alaitoc uses a lot of them, but shouldn't that follow the same arrangement as Saim-hann?
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PostSubject: Re: My ongoing Fandex project   Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:10 pm

I follow your logic, but I think Troops is simply the best fit of what's available. They aren't good enough to be Elites, and certainly don't qualify for the other categories. Also, if you think about their role (ranging ahead and securing objectives), it fits very well for Troops. Realistically, neither Scouts nor Rangers are versatile enough to serve as your only Troops (for the most part), so it's doubtful you'd see a whole army of them (although it is possible and has probably been done).
I think Pathfinders would be a good Elite version of Rangers, btw.
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PostSubject: Re: My ongoing Fandex project   Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:22 pm

I agree on the seperation of rangers and pathfinders in to troops and elites. As for the scout, leave them as troops and put a limiter on them. One scout for every Tac Squad or all compulsory choices must be filled with Tac Squads or somthing like that.

Guardian vs Dire Avengers is always going to be an argument untill both units are fixed up amd both are made worthwile troops. I am currently reworking my 3ed rewrite to make it current and I have some interesting ideas in that reguarding Guardians. May be over powered but you can yell at me when I post it Razz

So I genualy think that both DA and Guardians belong in the Troop section.
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