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yabba
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PostSubject: HQ Structure   Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:30 pm

It would be good if we could design a HQ section which maintains the established Codex format, but allows variation for people's own chapter.

So currently command of Marines runs Chapter Master>Company Captain>Veteran Sergeant>Sergeant with Librarians, Apothecaries, Chaplains and Techmarines seen in advisory/support roles. Some chapters have a slight to major variation on this.

My thought is that we break this down into two themes, with an overarching idea.

The overaeching idea is that you don't just have a captain/librarian/chaplain etc leading your army but the captain/librarian/chaplain etc with a defined role.

The two themes are:

Codex - the commander(s) you appoint comes from a company or is the chapter master. As such they have certain pros and cons over force composition

Individual - the commander(s) you appoint are from the traditional advisors and as such change certain aspects of squad make up.

So an obvious example is selecting the 1st Coy Captain would mean having Terminators and/or Vets as troop types, with Tactical moving to Elite

A less obvious example might be the selection of a Forgefather (Techmarine Hero) would mean compulsory upgrade of Marines with bionics (6+cover save), or the selection of a Chief Apothecary to lead might mean replacing Vet Sergeants with Apothecaries

This might mean equivalent command structures e.g.

Chapter Master>Captain>Leftenant>Sergeant
Chief Librarian>Epistolary>Lexicanium>Initiate
Master Chaplain>Chaplain>?>Curate

In addition, the selection of a certain HQ type makes the other types advisors and might reduce what levels are available

Anyway, any thoughts?
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Dwane Diblie
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:42 am

So you want to give more options to the layout of the army based entiraly on the HQ leading the army. I could see this working realy well with the % system but I feal it would be too incumbersome for the current FOC system. Though I do like it. Giving that this is marines we are talking about. I would even go as far as naming all 10 company comanders for each Marine Codex we create here. Sure it would be a bit of work. I would like to keep a basic Codex Marine codex and have people create and add to their own chapers as seperate codecies.
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Col. Tartleton
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:48 pm

I don't think you need to have ___ to justify ____. Just make things cost enough to prevent abuse.

Essentially I think there should be a divide with HQ being anything Commanderish and Elite holding anything heroish.

So If you want a Chaplain to lead your army, he's out of your HQ allotment. If you want a member of your squad to be a chaplain in training you can add them on with an Elite allotment.

I'm a more is more kind of guy. 40k isn't Inquisitor, but while you needn't go into vast detail, I can't justify simplification. 40k isn't really a battle game. It's not really a skirmish game either. It's about a few squads against a few squads.

I think there's a lot of room for this sort of thing but it requires a bit of bottom up reforms.
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:10 pm

OK I'll get some ideas up for the weekend.
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:18 pm

From lowest to highest,

Company Captain -> Master of the Chapter -> Chapter Master
Codicier -> Epistolary -> Chief Librarian
Company Chaplain -> Reclusiarch -> Master of Sanctity
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Dwane Diblie
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:24 pm

Another thought comes to me. I remember there being a time where you could take aditional characters and attach them to your retinues. If we are going to make 3 tiers of each of the HQs would you all be interested in puting the bottom tier characters as adds to the Command Squad.

You Comand sqoud would be as is with the options for a Company Captain, Company Chaplin and Codicier all perminantly attached to the unit. Each would add a little to the unit and each would be little cut down versions of the current ones available in the codex. I am thinking 1 wound each.
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:25 pm

Right this is what I am looking at.

There will be four HQ branches - Librarium, Apothercarium, Techmarine and Commander. There will be 4 different levels to each branch, and the first three levels will have their own statlines, with the 4th being a squad upgrade like (and including) the Vet Sergeant.

In addition each level will grant you special things, and give the character special rules. The top level (ie Chapter Master or equivalent) will also give you access to Honour Guard. The Captain level gives you access to a Command Squad but each captain level character must be associate with a company to give the army a structure.

This way people can have an almost fully customisable army but will be restricted to the army structure as designated by the army commander level.
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:34 pm

What about Reclusiam?
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:21 am

Herald of the Lost wrote:
What about Reclusiam?
Yeah, knew I had forgotten something!
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:02 pm

Right Statlines:

Chapter Master; Chief Librarian; Master of the Forge; Chief Apothecary; Master of Sanctity
Weapon Skill 6Balistic Skill 6Strength 4Toughness 4Wounds 3Initiative 5Attacks 4Leadership 10

Company Captain; Epistolary; Forge Adept; Master Apothecary; Reclusiarch
Weapon Skill 6Balistic Skill 5Strength 4Toughness 4Wounds 2Initiative 5Attacks 3Leadership 9

Lieutenant; Codicier; Techmarine; Apothecary; Chaplain
Weapon Skill 5Balistic Skill 5Strength 4Toughness 4Wounds 2Initiative 4Attacks 2Leadership 9

Vet Sarge; Lexicanium; Adept Novice; Apothecarium Novice; Reclusium Novice
Weapon Skill 5Balistic Skill 5Strength 4Toughness 4Wounds 1Initiative 4Attacks 2Leadership 9

Next up, standard equipment and special rules


Last edited by yabba on Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:17 pm

Why do the bottom tier of characters have more attacks than the tier just above them?
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:50 pm

No they don't! Cool
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:07 am

Smooth move Wink
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:27 pm

So how do you think this is all developing so far mate?
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:53 pm

I like it so far. I'm curious as to what kind of bonuses you have in store for the various commanders.
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:05 pm

Weapon fits.
There is a standard for all models which will be the normal weapon upgrade options for characters, pretty much as in Codex Marines, and every character comes with the following

Bolt Pistol + Sternguard Ammo, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

Right:

Chapter Master: Chapter Relic, Iron Halo
Company Captain: Company Relic, Iron Halo
Leftenant: Power Weapon

Chief Librarian: Force Weapon, Psychic Hood, Iron Halo
Epistolary: Force Weapon, Psychic Hood, Iron Halo
Librarian: Force Weapon, Psychic Tarot
Lexicanium: Force Rod

Master of Sanctity: Rosarius, Sacred Blade
Reclusiarch: Rosarius, Sacred Blade
Chaplain: Rosarius, Crozius Arcanum
Reclusiarch Novice: Holy Relic, Crozius Arcanum

Chief Apothecary: Power Weapon
Master Apothecary: Power Weapon
Apothecary: Power Weapon
Apothcarium Novice: Power Weapon

Master of the Forge: Custom Servo-Harness, Hammer of Mars, Iron Halo
Forge Adept: Servo-Harness, Hammer of Mars, Iron Halo
Techmarine: Power Weapon, Bionics, Servo Arm.
Adept Novice: Bionics, Power Weapon

Chapter Relic - Power Weapon, +2S
Company Relic - Power Weapon, +2S, two handed
Psychic Tarot - Negates psychic power on a 6+. On a 1,2 burns out for rest of game
Force Rod - +1S
Sacred Blade - Power Weapon, always wounds on a 4+
Holy Relic - reroll 1 failed save per turn
Hammer of Mars - 2 handed, Thunder Hammer, strikes in I order
Bionics - reroll failed saves

Custom Servo Harness - what I am looking at with this is that The Harness can be custom fit with a variety of weapons including conversion beamers and heavy weapons. all weapons hit on a 5+ in shooting and combat.

Next - special rules.
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:04 pm

Are four tiers necessary? Personally I'd recommend three. I think four requires too much tinkering for distinction.

I like the weapons and wargear.
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:14 pm

The fourth teir is a Vet Sarge substitute for different chaoters e.g. Iron snakes and Apothecaries, Iron Hands and Techs etc.

Most chapters will only get access to the top three.
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Col. Tartleton
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:21 pm

So basically you have three tiers of HQ and a squad upgrade. That's how I would do it.

Obviously its not 100% what I'd do but you're going for the current game while I'm plotting a Edition X. You considering specialized command squads??? (Perhaps not tied to the following but they'd be plenty fluffy for these forces.)

A Black Templar "Requiem" Squad? Four Novices led by their Reclusiarch?
An Iron Hands "Iron Brotherhood" Squad with four novices led by an Iron Father (Adept)?
A Blood Raven "Psykana Battle Squad" with an Epistolary and a Squad of Lexicanii?
A Ultramarine "Academia Squad" with a Chapter Master and a group of lieutenants?
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:51 pm

Thought about it mate as I always enjoyed the concept of Commissar Cadet Units for IG.

It would also allow for more irregular chapters within the Space Marine umbrella.
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: HQ Structure   Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:09 pm

Sorry its been a while - has this site been reformatted?

Anyway for some reason I am at a little of a block so feedback will be welcome.

Special Rules (So far)

Standard ones are: ATSKNF, Combat Tactics, IC

Chapter Master: Orbital Bombardment Master Strategist (rerolls one dice out of go first, deployment, set up first); Emperor's Scion (may take any Company Tactics)

Captain: Company Tactics - A captain must be assigned to a company. A company changes the FOC as below:

1st Coy: Terminators or Veteran Marines as Core Choices. If the Captain is in Terminator Armour this has to be terminators, if in power armour, Vets. Loses Tactical Squads
2nd - 5th Coys: May not have more than any other unit than Tactical Squads; may take 1 Assault and 1 Devastator squad as Core, but may never have more than 3 of each in the force. Scouts do not count against FOC
6th+7th Coys: May not take Scouts. Assault and Devastator Squads count as elite
8th Coy: May not take Scouts. Tactical and Devastator counts as elite
9th Coy: May not take Scouts. Tactical and Assault counts as elite
10th Coy: May only take Scouts, no units in terminator or power armour except below. May only take Scout Bikes and Land Speeder Storms. Normal Land Speeders may be taken as Elites. HQ units count as having Mk9 High Impact Scout Armour (3+ Save), and have Infiltrate, Move through Cover and Scouts.

Leftenant: Not sure yet

Chaplains: All lose ATSKNF

Master of Sanctity: Honour of the Chapter, Liturgies of Battle, Emperor Watches (Units within 6" become Fearless)
Reclusiarch: Honour of the Chapter, Liturgies of Battle, Fear
Chaplain: Honour of the Chapter, Liturgies of Battle
Reclusiarch Novice: Honour of the Chapter

Masters of Sanctity and Reclusiarchs may take 2-4 Reclusiarch Novices as a command squad (details to follow).

Librarium: Psyker

Chief Librarian: 2 Powers per turn, Power Boost (I need to review the powers first), Unearthly Aura - units targeting the Chief Librarian and any unit he is in are subject to the Night Fight rules.
Epistolary: 2 Powers per turn, Power Boost
Librarian: 1 Power per turn.
Lexicanium: Acute Senses

Chief Librarians and Epistolaries may take 2-4 Lexicaniums as a command squad (details to follow)

The Forge: Blessings of the Omnissiah, Bolster Defences.

Master of the Forge: +1 to Blessings Roll (2+ maximum); Any Command Squad, Honour Guard units or any Veteran Sergeant may Master Craft there weapons for +5pts per weapon; Armoured Fist - may take 1-3 of any vehicle as a single FOC choice. This includes Razorbacks. Razorbacks chosen this way count as Fast Attack choices and not dedicated transports. An army lead by a Master of the Forge automatically gives all Veterans and Veteran Sergeants Bionics for no cost.
Forge Adept: Armoured Fist - may take 1 Vehicle Squadron (see above);
Techmarine:
Adept Novice: Bolster Defences. Adept Novices may not have Servitors, but may support any model with Blessings of the Omnissah like a servitor but adds 2 to the roll (2+ maximum).

Masters of the Forge and Forge Adepts may take 2-4 Adept Novices as a command squad (details to follow)

Apothecarium: Models with Feel No Pain also confer that onto any squad joined.

Chief Apothecary: Feel No Pain, Immune to Poison, Hellfire Rounds maybe used in Storm Bolters, Combi-weapons and Bolt Pistols.
Master Apothecary: Feel No Pain, Immune to Poison
Apothecary: Feel No Pain
Apothecarium Novice: Ignores the first wounding hit on the squad each turn. Weapons that ignore armour or cause Instant Death cannot be affected by this ability. Multiple models with this ability allow additional hits under the same circumstances to be ignored.

Chief Apothecaries and Master Apothecaries may take 2-4 Apothecarium Novices as a command squad (details to follow).
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