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 Terminators

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yabba
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PostSubject: Terminators   Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:20 pm

I kind of like Terminators. Apart form following my own theme with Vets, has anyone got any observations on where they are lacking compared to other heavy elite units?
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Herald of the Lost
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PostSubject: Re: Terminators   Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:57 pm

Survivability.

Plasma and melta are just too common and bargain-cheap, requiring units to be fielded with Storm Shields (or Assault Cannon spam, formerly) to be effective.

Chaos Terminators dealt with this by dropping to a point value that actually reflects their game play value, but it really detracts from the thematic element of Terminator armor being tough as hell and rare.

I'd like to see Terminators become as resilient or more resilient than their heavy infantry counterparts, such as Wraithguard and Ogryns, balanced by high cost and drop in mobility.

Example.

Tactical Dreadnought Armor
A model wearing Tactical Dreadnought Armor has a 2+ armor save and adds 1 to its wearer's Strength, Toughness, and Wounds. The Toughness bonus is not used for the purposes of Instant Death, and the Strength bonus is applied after other modifiers, such as Power Fists.

The model also gains the Feel No Pain and Slow and Purposeful universal special rules.

In addition, a unit equipped with Tactical Dreadnought Armor may be held in Reserve regardless of the mission rules and deployed using the Deep Strike special rules.
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: Terminators   Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:47 pm

I am half tempted to go all out - so Veteran profile and abilities, your TDN upgrade, 5+inv, Sterguard ammo upgrade for Stormbolters and, if the army contains a First Company character a special unit ability

Now that would out the frighteners up people Twisted Evil
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Dwane Diblie
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PostSubject: Re: Terminators   Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:37 pm

I also agree that terminators need to be feared and extreamly porerful. They should be almost as hard to get rid of as dreadnoughts. I like the addition of Sternguard ammo. We currently have a Terminator Assult Squad and plain Terminator squad. How about combining them with the Vanguard and Sternguard as in giving them the same or similar options. Vanguard Terminators and Sternguard Terminaotrs. Combining was probably the wrong word. Just the change to the unit names and similar options.

I like the suit upgrades of S T W. Not too keen on Slow and Purposful though. Would have to play through it a bit and see how it played out. But from Oblitirator experiance it made manovering them hard and they where easely avoided.
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: Terminators   Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:51 am

Slow and Purposeful would kind of defeat the purpose of assault terminators.

I'll knock up a unit card later today for each unit
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: Terminators   Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:11 am

Marine:...Weapon Skill 5Balistic Skill 5:s4(5)::t4(5)::w1(2):Initiative 4:a2/3:Leadership 9:sv2+/5+:

Sargent:.Weapon Skill 5Balistic Skill 5:s4(5)::t4(5)::w1(2):Initiative 4:a2/3:Leadership 9:sv2+/5+:

Comp: 1 Sgt, 4 Marines
Type: Infantry
Wargear: Terminator Armour, Storm Bolter, Powerfist, Sternguard Ammo. The Sergeant may have a Power Weapon instead of a Power Fist, and also comes with a Teleport Homer.
Special Rules: ATSKNF; Combat Squads; Chapter Tactics;

Deep Strike:Any Terminator Squad may always be held in reserve regardless of scenario rules, and deploy using the Deep Strike rules.

Veteran Marines: Once per game the may reroll any of their own following failed dice rolls: any Shooting, any Close Combat; any Leadership

Options;
May include up to 5 additional Terminators at ...pts per model

If the squad numbers 5-9 models then 1 Terminator may replace their Stormbolters with the following:
Heavy Flamer ..pts; Assault Canon ..pts; Alternatively one model may take a Cyclone Missile Launcher for ..pts;

If the Squad number 10 models then 1 more Terminator may replace their bolters with the following; Heavy Flamer ..pts; Assault Canon ..pts; Alternatively one model may take a Cyclone Missile Launcher for ..pts;

Any Terminator replace his Bolter with a Combi-weapon for ..pts; They still retain the Sternguard Ammo.

Unit may be transported in a Rhino or Land Raider Variant. Terminators count as two models for the purposes of Transport Capacity.

Assault Variant: A squad may choose to change to Assault Status. In this case only the following upgrades can be taken:
Any model may swap its Powerfist and Stormbolter for: Paired Lightning Claws for ..pts; Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield for ..pts; Relic Blade* and Storm Shield for ..pts; any model may keep its Stormbolter and swap their Powerfist for a Power Weapn.
* Models in Terminator Armour may use Relic Blades one handed, but only with a Storm Shield.

If the army has a commander from the 1st Company in it, and that commander is equipped with Terminator Armour then any Terminator Squad will benefit from Thunderbolt Assault when it deepstrikes.
Thunderbolt Assault: On the turn the unit deepstrikes, any enemy units within 6" of the squad take d6 S4 AP- automatic hits.

The Sergeant maybe upgraded to Chosen Man for ..pts;. While he is alive, once per game the squad can chose to pass or fail a Ld test rather than roll.
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PostSubject: Re: Terminators   Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:53 am

I forgot that Slow and Purposeful lowers initiative in an assault. Is there another way to represent the fact that Terminators are slow?
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: Terminators   Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:01 pm

Why are Terminators slow?
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Herald of the Lost
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PostSubject: Re: Terminators   Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:18 pm

They reference it all the time in the background. Big suits of armor that make them nigh-on indestructible but limit mobility. The example that sticks out in my mind is in the novel Fulgrim when the Emperor's Children are taking it to the Laer. They describe the Terminators as having difficulty keeping up with the rest of the force.
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yabba
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PostSubject: Re: Terminators   Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:30 pm

Don't allow them to run then.

Slow and purposeful for me would indicate a mobile heavy fire platform, like Oblits. Terminators are far more than that and when commited are one of the most potent units in an Imperial Armoury. However I can't see Terminators running from cover to cover, or jogging to the front - thats what deep strike is for Smile
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Dwane Diblie
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PostSubject: Re: Terminators   Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:53 pm

Disallow them the ability to run, infiltrate, scout and any other movement special rules that come to mind.

I would also like to play with the idea of a set inititave that can not be over ridden by weapon rules. Somthing like all of the above stat advances but the modles I in halved. This cannot be changed by anyother ability or or weapon special rule. This will allow them limited sweaping advance play. But it will also give I2 for Power Fists and Thunder hammers. But also I2 for all other attacks. So good and bad. May be too negative. Not sure how this will play with Relic Blades over Power Fists.

If we are going to play with the Sternguard and Vanguard ideas mixed in with the terminators then I beleave that there should ba a base unit like yabba is proposing with the Vet marines.

Also give that, then Vet marines shoud have the standard swops as now. Vanguard should have more options and they should swop individual weapons as they like. Use the swap Stormbolter and/or Power Fist for the following:.....
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Col. Tartleton
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PostSubject: Re: Terminators   Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:41 pm

AV 1+

They were designed for being inside of a plasma reactor. The should laugh off anything that isn't AP1. Razz

Well to coincide with my other marines:

Weapon Skill 5 Balistic Skill 5 Strength 4 Toughness 4 Wounds 3 Initiative 4 Attacks 3 Leadership 10

Terminator Armor confers a 2+ save.

Powerfists, Hammers, and Chainfists hit at initiative (the way they're supposed to.)
Lightning Claws are rending powerweapons that reroll to hit. Stormbolters shoot death. I'm thinking a buff to it.
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